Topic: So here I am

And for those who know what I'm talking about, hopefully many will follow and lead the way.  Glad to see a spam free zone.

Re: So here I am

And a more mature community in general.

Re: So here I am

It basicly bsdforums - noobs ..

Anyway ... Welcome!

Trust me, I know what I'm doing.

Re: So here I am

...but with less traffic.  That may change.

Re: So here I am

I hope it changes! though I've had little opportunity to do much with BSD lately other than let it keep chugging away on my router/server.

Re: So here I am

Yeah, DrJ and I were discussing that recently--it takes more time to maintain than I realized since it used to be part of my job.  Asem, that's actually another thing I find with the CentOS (which is based on RH Enterprise), it does take less time to maintain. 

Actually, even Fedora, which is like running CURRENT much of the time, but without good docs, doesn't take all that much effort to maintain. 

Ok, let me not hijack this thread.  The forum may or may not get a high influx of people--today was sort of the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back though, I'm afraid to open those forums at work and close to half of the posts are spam.

<@andre> i would be so much more efficient if i wasn't so stupid

Re: So here I am

I phoned and talked to "Admin" earlier today (I think bsdforums.org is run by a company so there are more people on the "Admin account?)
Anyway, he is aware of the situation, the plan is to migrate to a new system which is why they haven't fixed the current system.
I told him that it might be a good idea to make a topic to less everyone know what is going on because right now the general impression is that "Admin" has left us and no longer cares ... He assured me this is not the case and that things should be improving "soon" ...

Trust me, I know what I'm doing.

Re: So here I am

@carpetsmoker, good news so far smile

F!XMBR

Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. --Pericles

Re: So here I am

Good news. I was thinking of leaving BSD forums too. I hope that "soon" is really soon.:)

Re: So here I am

well, there's certainly no spam over here! the trade-off is that there aren't many posts by real people either

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Re: So here I am

Hey!  I resemble that remark!  I know *I'm* not real.

Re: So here I am

im thinking of leaving bsdforums as well

For example, Linux had at least two completely independent USB stacks before Linus Torvalds rejected them both and wrote a third one from scratch, after he found both existent Linux  stacks unsatisfactory.  (When pressed for an explanation as to why he selected the API he did, Torvalds stated: "because I wanted to."

Re: So here I am

asemisldkfj wrote:

well, there's certainly no spam over here! the trade-off is that there aren't many posts by real people either

"An educator never says what he himself thinks, but only that which he thinks it is good for those whom he is educating to hear."
-Nietzsche

Re: So here I am

Carpetsmoker wrote:

I phoned and talked to "Admin" earlier today...

Carpetsmoker, check your email for a message from me & please respond.

Re: So here I am

I'd be happy to get some people from BSDForums over here. the activity would be welcome.

every time I post on BSDForums I'll stick around for a couple of weeks and actually read the new posts, but then I realize there's a lot more crap on there (both in the form of spam and of terrible posts) than is worth sifting through.

I also kind of like that I 'know' most everyone who posts here to some extent, usually from #bsd.

Re: So here I am

Welcome drhowarddrfine

This place was started due to the "issues" that bsdforums created. Several of us did not agree with their policies (which are not in the spirit of BSD) and so this place got started.

Hope you stick around.

"UBER" means I don't drink the coffee... I chew the beans instead
             -- Copyright BSDnexus

Re: So here I am

Yup. Welcome dr Howard smile

<wintellect> NetBSD users are smart enough to accept that there's no 3D support tongue

Re: So here I am

Thanks but you'll all regret it.  smile

Re: So here I am

asemisldkfj wrote:

I'd be happy to get some people from BSDForums over here. the activity would be welcome.

every time I post on BSDForums I'll stick around for a couple of weeks and actually read the new posts, but then I realize there's a lot more crap on there (both in the form of spam and of terrible posts) than is worth sifting through.

I agree it would be nice to have more activity here, I sure hope we don't get alot of the "I just installed *BSD and all I get is a dos prompt" or "X doesn't work...HELP!" post that seem to be taking over the other forum and then lead to long threads about how *BSD user suck and think they are superior to every one. hmm

"An educator never says what he himself thinks, but only that which he thinks it is good for those whom he is educating to hear."
-Nietzsche

Re: So here I am

Well, hopefully, we can politely send those folks over to pcbsdforums, which is more designed to help the newcomer. 

Anyway, we'll see what happens.

<@andre> i would be so much more efficient if i wasn't so stupid

Re: So here I am

Welcome to this fine forum drhowarddrfine.

Re: So here I am

RoddieRod wrote:

I sure hope we don't get alot of the "I just installed *BSD and all I get is a dos prompt" or "X doesn't work...HELP!" post that seem to be taking over the other forum and then lead to long threads about how *BSD user suck and think they are superior to every one. hmm

Well, with the good comes the bad.

We are seeing a changing demographic come to the *BSD's.  Be it schools/universities, the increased exposure or acceptance of Linux and/or Open Source, the entrance of Asia into the global market, or simply the cheap price, younger & more inexperienced people are arriving at our doorstep.  They don't have much experience, their troubleshooting skills are weak, & they may or may not have the discipline to research & study manpages.  There are a myriad of issues (some old, some new...) which make up this new newbie soup.

Traditionally, the *BSD's have been relatively small projects especially in comparison to Linux.  The number of resources or infrastructure in place just aren't the same.  Yet, the newbies who show up here or at other *BSD forums want & sometimes demand help simply because they don't have any other avenue to resolve their problems.

What compounds the situatlon is that some expect to be taught.  I have come to the realization that forum sites shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that they will teach, but they can (& will...) provide guidance.  There is a distinct difference between teaching & guiding, but the distinction is subtle.  The difference lies in the taking responsibility for learning one's self & not expecting others to ensure that every rock has been turned over for them.  Seeking truth usually means sifting through a lot of unvarnished meta-truths.

Labeling the *BSD's as elitist is usually done out of anger.  The *BSD projects are still largely run by developers & not marketing departments nor advertising firms.  As such, there is an underlying assumption of knowing the tools & terrain just as a developer would.  Forum sites tend to handle the traffic which isn't quite ready for the project mailing lists, so we need to understand that we will be fielding a lot of expectations which may or may not be realistic.

Lastly, don't misconstrue these comments as belittling newbies.  We were all there once, & learning is a journey.  At their best, forum sites help illuminate productive directions & show people how they can help themselves.

Re: So here I am

Perhaps we all need to be humbled at times and remember that we also were once n00bs.

Obviously, this doesn't excuse n00bs from making zero effort.

"UBER" means I don't drink the coffee... I chew the beans instead
             -- Copyright BSDnexus

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Re: So here I am

WIntellect wrote:

Perhaps we all need to be humbled at times ...

Must not be married...

Re: So here I am

DrJ wrote:
WIntellect wrote:

Perhaps we all need to be humbled at times ...

Must not be married...

LOL!!!


@ocicat - I understand your points and I agree with most. I believe that there are a lot more people comming from the Linux world or even straight from windows without a clear understand of what the BSDs are.

I was thinking about this, a little today and I think that the problem may be that FreeBSD isn't a company like some of the larger Linux Distros such as Red Hat, SuSE or Ubuntu. Companies like this seem to have a more company centered support system where as  FreeBSD, for example, support is mainly from volunteer user via the mailing list. None of the support forums for freeBSD are offically associated with FreeBSD itself. The one thing I really don't understand is that Linux user forums seem to be more harsh than the FreeBSD lists, in general or at least from my memory. But, I haven't used a Linux for over 10 years. The closest thing the BSD have to this is PC-BSD and they are relatively new.

"An educator never says what he himself thinks, but only that which he thinks it is good for those whom he is educating to hear."
-Nietzsche

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